Coraggio Consulting
Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Housing Committee, Tuesday, July 8, 2025

Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2025
Place: Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, Virginia
Length: 1h 16m (video)
Official meeting video (Fairfax County): https://video.fairfaxcounty.gov/player/clip/3861
Official Board of Supervisors page (Fairfax County): https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/boardofsupervisors/

Machine transcript (speech-to-text) produced by Coraggio Consulting. Not an official county record. Names and numbers may be misspelled; check the video at the timestamp before quoting.
Speech-to-text: whisper.cpp, model large-v3-turbo. Produced 2026-10-29. Timestamps are [HH:MM:SS] into the meeting video.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[00:00:00] All right, good morning. Supervisor Dalia Paltrick here, chair of the housing committee, and I'm going to go ahead and get us started. Before we do, I want to share that the chairman will not be joining us today because he is representing Fairfax County at a special VACO meeting in Richmond this morning.

[00:00:22] And Supervisor Stork is also unable to join us today due to a family commitment. With that, before we start with our housing committee, I did want to turn it over to Deputy County Executive Chris Leonard to give us a little update on federal activity.

[00:00:39] Thank you, Supervisor Palachuk. Good morning, board members. Just wanted to give you some reassurance that with the passage of the reconciliation bill last week, signed into law on Friday, that we're working on a number and understanding a number of those significant safety net changes, particularly to Medicaid and SNAP.

[00:01:00] So really working closely with our staff and leadership within Department of Family Services to monitor that. there will be some state level components so we'll probably be returning to you in the fall with things that will probably need to be in the legislative package with regards to those two specific programs with regards to what the federal law is now directing so I just wanted to reassure you that we are on that we're working through that and we'll be coming back to you through various means memos nips and certainly use our future Human Services Committee meetings uh to be able to continue to keep you updated so just wanted to make make everyone aware

[00:01:40] that that work continues thank you we very much appreciate that and what our entire team are doing um before we start the meeting just wanted to see if anyone had any comments or feedback on our meeting summary for march 25th housing committee all right seeing none we do have um a large agenda today but um no decision points uh really just updates and progress on the incredible work um that the housing committee uh the housing team has been doing and so the first will be the progress on the housing initiatives and development and i believe we have tom fleetwood director of

[00:02:18] housing and his team here to present that thank you and good morning madam chairman tom fleetwood with the department of housing and community development we're going to start uh today covering a number of topics uh to provide updates but also as a prelude to the other two presentations that you'll be receiving today. So we'll be covering a little bit about our federal housing funds, ongoing updates about our homelessness response, new development. We're having a focus on senior housing today, just briefly, and an update on some policy initiatives.

[00:02:51] First, with respect to the federal housing funding, the president's proposed budget does include substantial reductions to the HUD budget in terms of both rental assistance as well as the homelessness programs, and home and CDBG are also proposed for elimination. It should be noted that the House and Senate committees will start publishing their proposed numbers as we understand it this month and the negotiations will carry on for some time i do wish to note with respect to

[00:03:29] the reconciliation bill that chris referenced is that there are a couple of long sought after improvements in the federal low income housing tax credit program that were included and that represent you know a significant step forward for for our work most and both of both steps forward are consistent with items that were included in your federal legislative program, one of which was an increase in the 9% tax credit allocation of the states.

[00:04:01] It was a 12.5% increase, as well as a change to the requirements for the use of private activity bonds to access 4% credits, which will substantially increase the capacity of Virginia's bond volume cap to support these programs. With respect to our homelessness response, I'm very pleased to report, and I think many of you are aware, that the new Fair Ridge shelter opened on April the 2nd. This was a very significant step forward in terms of our capacity

[00:04:39] to serve homeless families, to reduce our reliance on the use of hotels, and also create additional capacity to serve to serve homeless singles in North County at the Embry-Rucker shelter. We are continuing to work with our county partners to on the replacement of both the Rucker and Kennedy shelters and to deliver new permanent supportive housing units. I'll just note and wish to underline in particular that the FCRAJ has now signed the memorandum of agreement with the

[00:05:18] state and we are underway with the new state permanent supportive housing program. As you'll recall, that includes 300 new permanent supportive housing vouchers for people who are eligible for permanent supportive housing with serious mental illness. I wanted to take a step back as well and just kind of note the breadth of work being done relative to incomes being served in our programs and kind of put it in context with the ALICE population that you heard so much about at

[00:05:54] your last Human Services Committee, just to kind of demonstrate and show that, you know, that the ALICE population does sit, you know, firmly within the populations served by our housing populations. And just for reference, the ALICE threshold income median for all family sizes in fairfax county is eighty six thousand and twenty eight dollars so i'll go ahead and move on from there our progress towards our goal inclusive of units in our pipeline we are at just about 38

[00:06:31] percent of our goal we have just broken ground on our first building repurposing for affordable housing the providence district just a couple of weeks ago and we are anticipating that the new autumn willow development that's 150 units for seniors will open in very short order and we're looking forward to that as well with respect to senior housing we wanted to kind of highlight senior housing in particular because about one in every

[00:07:09] four of the new affordable housing units that we're producing is a senior unit and i wanted to just kind of give a snapshot on seniors about what it is that the housing authority operates what our private partners have what we've delivered under the affordable housing development initiative under your 10,000 unit goal and what we have under construction so just very briefly the housing authority has just over 500 units of senior independent living almost all of which are in communities wholly owned by the housing authorities such as Morris

[00:07:45] Glen, Herndon Harbor House, Little River Glen, etc. We also own and operate two facilities that have a total of 112 beds of licensed assisted living, one at the Linconia facility in the Mason District and the other being at Braddock Glen in the Braddock District as part of the Little River Glen campus. Further, our private nonprofit and for-profit partners also own and operate close to 3 000 units of affordable housing for seniors as of right now since 2020 we have delivered 413

[00:08:23] new affordable senior units and we have 210 additional senior units that are under construction right now uh you know we do want to note some emerging challenges that we're seeing relative to seniors that you know the increase in incomes of people with you know who are on fixed incomes is not keeping up with the rapid increase in the area median income.

[00:08:47] So we're starting to see some disconnect between the area median income and what our seniors are able to afford. But we're continuing to work to understand that, both in terms of the incomes and, of course, in terms of the services that seniors need.

[00:09:10] So looking forward, you're going to hear today from my colleagues, gentry alexander and callie seltzer with respect to our homeownership programs you're also going to hear a report out on our draft tenant relocation guidelines that are focused on the units that are subject to the preservation policy and you're also at the land use process committee going to be hearing extensive updates on the plan amendment zoning ordinance and relocation guidelines

[00:09:44] associated uh with manufactured housing i'll just i'll just note that at the end of the published presentation is uh you know sort of a more of an in-depth dive on the units you know the units produced and under construction and in the pipeline uh but we'll uh we'll hold those uh in abeyance and i'm happy to stop and answer any questions you may have thank you madam chairman well first of all thank you so much uh tom and your team for your incredible work in putting this together. I also very much appreciate the charts following this. I know we wanted to save a little bit of presentation time, but appreciate the breakdown of all of the completed under

[00:10:23] construction, pre-development, and potential preservation and conceptual development. So quite a bit of work being done there. My one question before I turn it over to my colleagues, I appreciate the highlight on the senior housing and on the disconnect, the growing difference between the average median income and where our seniors are.

[00:10:46] And I know we continue to do that work. I don't know if you have further information on timeline or on some of those trends or things you're looking at to try to help us address that disconnect. Right. So I think we're going to be looking at underwriting those projects at lower incomes and other supportive services that we can provide.

[00:11:10] But those are sort of the two biggest steps that we can take at this point. And there are no decision items at this point. I assume you'll come back to us with that. All right. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate that. I will turn to my colleagues, and then we'll move on to the next presentation.

[00:11:27] I see Supervisor Alcorn and Supervisor Jimenez. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you for following up on the senior housing. Look forward to that as well. that's very very helpful information um on the homelessness uh issue thank you also for flagging with uh the situation with the fair red shelter and uh believe it's somewhere between 45 and 50 additional beds um have come online at the embryo rucker shelter for singles uh because of that move

[00:12:00] is that correct uh that's correct um tom barnett is here if we have any further in-depth questions but but that is correct okay uh that's fantastic and certainly um that that helps um you know i i would just point out for my colleagues um it's it really helps it's not enough i mean we still have folks that uh are sleeping outside because um there aren't enough shelter beds uh different parts of fairfax county um including in hunter mill district um and we also have folks just to

[00:12:37] remind everybody that, frankly, because of behavioral issues or history, are not allowed to go into the shelter for some period of time because of whatever, you know, reasons and behavior. So I just want to remind us all that we're making progress, certainly on the sheltering, and then as you pointed out, with the permanent supportive housing, the vouchers from the state and other work towards getting more permanent supportive housing, we have long-term efforts that we're moving as well.

[00:13:14] So thank you for summarizing that. And thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah. No, I very much appreciate that. You know, I know this is housing. We also have Land Use Committee. I also want to remind my colleagues that there's only so much we can do through the official channels and the official housing that as the cost of housing continues to rise, we need to continue to look at ways both for affordable, attainable, permanent, and just all housing and how we help address that in a more sustainable way in the county.

[00:13:44] So I appreciate you pointing that out. I had Supervisor Jimenez and Supervisor Lusk and then Bierman. Thank you, Madam Chair. And Mr. Fleetwood, thank you so much. As always, extremely informational. Thank you for this information. Two big issues that pertain to Mason.

[00:14:01] One, I'll start with homelessness, following up on Mr. Alcorn. You know, especially as it gets warm, we continue to have more encampments, especially in Mason District. One of the things that I find helpful is when we're able to give our residents an explanation of the process of working around encampments.

[00:14:23] Because, you know, our residents at times can feel unsafe or for whatever reason, they want it gone yesterday, right? And I think that the more that as supervisors and with the help of the housing department, we can let our residents know that there is a process.

[00:14:40] This doesn't happen overnight. We're not just going to pick up folks. And, you know, we're always trying to remind folks in Mason that these are humans. You know, they have a story, and we need to treat them, these folks, like humans, like neighbors. And so I think it's an important part, an important informational piece.

[00:14:58] The second, real quick, is when it comes to our adult population, Mason District has the largest population of residents that are seniors in all of Fairfax County.

[00:15:16] You talked about trying to understand and updating how you look at the needs of seniors throughout Fairfax County. Can you talk a little bit more about how you plan on looking and addressing this issue? Sure. So kind of two tracks, really.

[00:15:33] One is how we underwrite the projects themselves in terms of their affordability, and that is something that we will be working on a continual basis and sort of on a project-by-project basis. We've also found that over time in our senior developments, particularly because the ones owned by the housing authority itself, is that our seniors tend to have lower incomes even than those who are, you know, than those who are served in, you know, privately run affordable housing. And we see, you know, pretty high service needs, especially among

[00:16:12] populations that are living in projects that are not directly connected to a senior center. So trying to understand what those service needs are. I don't really have a timeline on that just yet, but those are the kind of things that we're going to be looking at. And if we can help, Provide any information or services, you know, just make sure to reach out especially in Mason district We'd be happy to work work with you and with the Department of Housing. Yes, sir. Thank you Let's go ahead to Supervisor Beerman and we'll come back to supervisor Lusk. Thank you, madam chair I have a quick question about

[00:16:52] on page three Your discussion of federal housing funding you noted that reconciliation Included long-sought improvements to the low-income housing tax credit which presumably will make it easier to build low-income housing.

[00:17:09] But you also noted that there are major reductions in fundamental structural changes to HUD's rental and homeless assistance programs. Can you talk a little bit about how are we going to end up with more low-income housing but no rental assistance to help people actually live in there?

[00:17:27] And what's that going to do to our budget and our approach here in the county? Are we going to need to figure out ways to change our approach and perhaps step in with respect to rental and homeless assistance programs? Sure.

[00:17:42] So as you know, the Housing Choice Voucher Program for Fairfax County through the FCRHA is about $90 million a year. So it is a very significant source of rental assistance that serves about 5,000 families.

[00:18:01] While, you know, the president's budget certainly is concerning and would represent a truly fundamental change in how rental assistance is delivered and the amount of rental assistance that is available to localities, it remains very much to be seen what the appropriators will do.

[00:18:20] And we simply are just not there yet in terms of what those numbers from appropriations will look like. But we're monitoring it very, very carefully. I think that I really don't want to speculate on dollars, amounts, et cetera, but I think thematically we will probably see something come through that focuses on enhanced work requirements and those sorts of things as well.

[00:18:50] But we'll have to monitor and report back to the board as part of the larger effort under HHS with respect to all of our federal funding. Thank you. Further questions? No, thank you. No further questions.

[00:19:05] Supervisor Lusk, and then we'll move on to the next presentation. I'll thank Supervisor Bierman. That was a question I was going to ask regarding the most recent budget, so thank you for that. What I'd like to maybe clarify is thinking about the senior housing.

[00:19:22] Personally, I've had the opportunity to visit in my own district the Oakwood Meadows project and to see the high quality and see the residents who are there, I think it's really important that our community members know the type of housing that's being built for our seniors is impressive and provides great amenities, great facilities, and I think for those who have made a contribution to this

[00:19:57] county to help us make it what it is today, to be able to continue to live in Fairfax County is something that they deserve, and I just appreciate that this is a focus of the county and that it's important work that we're doing. And then the second thing I wanted to clarify is on the low-income tax credits, if you're going to provide us some additional information around kind of the impacts of this increase because it sounds like we're going to hopefully be able to get more dollars into projects that we're proposing in the future is what I'm assuming,

[00:20:35] but I'll be curious to hear your assessment later in terms of what are the opportunities for Fairfax County in terms of additional dollars, and then what does that additional deployment of capital mean in terms of future facilities here in our county?

[00:20:54] We can certainly provide that. I'll note that, you know, both of these changes are, I don't want to call them, you know, sort of esoteric, but they are, you know, they are, you know, quite technical changes in many ways.

[00:21:13] And so, you know, we'll figure out the best way to kind of explain that, you know, for, you know, for the layperson to understand, you know, the board and the citizens, of course, and provide something to you in due course. Madam Chairman, I'll just say I appreciate that on one hand there is a reduction, but on the other hand there's a potential increase.

[00:21:38] So I think being able to show kind of we might have a loss here, but we're going to have a gain on this other side, just understanding the impacts of that. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Yeah, and if I can just say, obviously we all have a lot of questions and concerns, right? There's a lot that is changing, and so I think Tom wants to speak to that.

[00:21:58] But right now, we know it's coming. We don't know exactly. And I know they're always open to individual meetings if you want to better understand where we are. But I believe we're waiting to really have more clarity before having that clarity between where the gains are and where the losses are going to be on this.

[00:22:20] Madam Chairman, that's certainly correct with respect to appropriations. I do want to take this opportunity to introduce to the board, for those of you that haven't met her, Callie Seltzer, who is our director for real estate and community development finance.

[00:22:36] Ms. Seltzer joins us from HR&A Associates, where among her many duties was being one of the lead underwriters on the Amazon Housing Equity Fund. And Ms. Seltzer, I think, had wanted to make a couple of quick comments with respect to the tax credit question, just to give you a little bit more detail than I'm capable of giving you. And of course, happy to follow up afterwards as well, but I've been working in the low-income housing tax credit program for 18 years and have syndicated about a billion dollars of deals over those years. This change potentially represents a whole

[00:23:13] shift in the market for the low-income housing tax credit because the public-private partnership that is the tax credit program is really sustained by capital gains and the community Reinvestment Act. And so I think any changes that we see on that side, which is really the tax side and the capital gains side, will directly impact the market that we are in for demand essentially for tax credits. And so that's a pricing question that comes in and certainly a lot of other very

[00:23:47] technical details. So you are correct on one side, we're expecting maybe some gains, but is that actually offset by sort of the overall demand for credits, and what does that do to pricing, which is ultimately what gets you either dollar for dollar or less or more into a project, you know, the subsidy. So it is a real moving target at this moment. Well, that was, thank you, an incredible segue, because not only is it a moving target, but I don't know if there's any topic we cover that's more complicated than affordable housing finance, and we appreciate

[00:24:23] that we were able to hire such an incredible lead for that. So now I will turn it over to our next presentation, I believe led by Callie Seltzer and Gentry Alexander on the progress of homeownership initiatives and development. So take it away, Callie. Thank you so much.

[00:24:40] Callahan Seltzer, Division Director for Real Estate and Community Development Finance, joined the county about a year ago, have been working in the private and non-profit sectors for about 18 years across affordable housing finance, on the debt and equity side, and sort of the whole range of multifamily and single-family affordable housing systems.

[00:25:01] I'm very glad to be here with my colleague, Gendry Alexander, who will introduce himself in just a moment. Today, we're going to talk about our homeownership programs. I'll just say that, you know, in the year that I've been here, sort of scanning what we're doing, we're doing a lot already as a county in homeownership, but based on sort national experience and also, you know, regional, we are really only scratching the surface, I think, in what we can do in single-family homeownership opportunities, given direction and resources. We're going to talk about some of the programs more specifically, and these also

[00:25:39] were in Tom's presentation earlier in the same chart. So getting into our housing continuum here, If you're able to see it, on the green, you'll see, you know, sort of a range of homeownership opportunities or subsidies that exist across sort of the income spectrum.

[00:26:01] So that green band at the bottom being your, you know, what isn't affordable, as in not paying more than 30% of your gross income toward housing cost. So you can kind of line up, you know, income bands, who we're serving, and then up at the top in green and also in orange, the programs that the county administers.

[00:26:22] We're going to get in a little bit more to the ADUs, WDUs, what we're doing with CDBG and down payment assistance, as well as partnerships we have through Virginia Housing with SPARC, and as well as, you know, Housing Choice Vouchers. I'll turn it to my colleague, Gentry Alexander.

[00:26:41] Great. Thank you, Callie. And again, my name is Gentry Alexander. I'm the Division Director of the Homeownership Division. I'm very excited to share a little bit about where we come from and where we are, and then also very excited about where we're going. Starting with our affordable dwelling units and our workforce dwelling units, we currently support over 1,600 households in our portfolio.

[00:27:02] In fiscal year 2024, we added 93 new households to that portfolio. And in FY25, we had 84 new households. These are first-time homebuyers that are buying either one of our ADUs or one of our WDUs. We've also worked very hard with the homeownership team to improve efficiency, improving our customer experience, improving our developer experience.

[00:27:25] Specifically, we've worked on our application process. We've worked on improving our lender communication, worked very closely with developers and their sales teams to improve their experience as well, including a number of other internal efficiencies and work that we've done. As was already mentioned, we also administer CDBG funds with the Community Development Block Grant.

[00:27:48] So we provide up to $10,000 in down payment assistance for households, up to 80% AMI. So in FY24, we assisted 81 households. FY25, we have ended up assisting 79 households. Within our Housing Choice Voucher Program, we also have a small number of families that are participating in that homeownership program.

[00:28:09] But we do have 20 families that are currently utilizing our Housing Choice Vouchers for homeownership. And then also within HCD, we administer the Home Repair for the Elderly Program, which is known as HREP. In FY24, we had 202 different cases serving 177 households with an average income of $27,406, which is in the 25% AMI band.

[00:28:34] Next, I want to talk just a little bit about what's called SPARC. It's a partnership with Virginia Housing. It's sponsoring partnerships and revitalizing communities. It is a 1% reduction to Virginia Housing's interest rates for first-time homebuyers, and this is something that we partner with them to administrate.

[00:28:53] In FY24, we invested $6.3 million in mortgage capital to support 19 households as first-time homebuyers in the county, and in FY25, we invested $16.9 million in mortgage capital to support 43 households. And then next, I want to talk a little bit about where we're going.

[00:29:12] So we've just entered into a Memorandum of Understanding, an MOU, also with Virginia Housing, for Virginia REACH funds. This is $7.5 million in grant funds specifically to create homeownership opportunities for low and low-to-moderate-income households, which we're very excited about.

[00:29:31] So we'll deploy the funds in a variety of different ways, again, though, specifically supporting homeownership. Our priority will be enhanced homebuyer assistance, and so down payment and closing cost assistance. There are other potential opportunity-driven uses for manufactured housing residents.

[00:29:47] We may have the opportunity to do pricing adjustments for our WDUs to ensure that those are priced appropriately when those are sold. And then also there may be other small-scale homeownership development opportunities. And then I'll turn it back over to Kelly.

[00:30:05] Thank you. So I think the programs we just overviewed, and happy to talk about them more. With that, you can see we are doing a lot with non-county funds. We really try to pull together as many resources as we can to further the homeownership mission.

[00:30:23] Both state and federal are very well and extensively deployed into homeownership. We are also looking to grow the work we do in homeownership. And we recognize it remains out of reach for many households across Fairfax County.

[00:30:40] And, you know, as we build on the track record we have of supporting new homeownership opportunities and new households to get into homeownership and achieve that sort of major life milestone, we are looking at how do we support a range of models and how do we deepen our impact.

[00:30:59] So we have a lot more data we're working on to understand who it is we're trying to serve, how do we serve them more deeply, and how do we have the greatest impact on homebuyers, given that homeownership exists in a market, changing market conditions, rising interest rates, et cetera.

[00:31:18] How do we, in this time, work to strengthen and deepen that impact? Thank you very much. You left me hanging there, Callie. That was amazing. And I guess I think you touched on what we all, the questions we have and how we try to address the home ownership piece here in the county. I think, as you mentioned, all of the outside factors, including, you know, what is the best way to target who and the how and the outcome. So I don't know if you can give us a little bit of a teaser on whether it's timing

[00:31:54] or some solutions or questions for us as you explore that work? Sure. So we work every day to understand the faces of homeownership and who is trying to achieve homeownership in the county and what the specific barriers are to them in the income band where they exist and also given other costs of housing that are rising, insurance, et cetera, not to mention generally the rising cost of living and the, you know, worsening affordability concerns we have.

[00:32:25] So we are really trying to understand the faces of those buyers or potential buyers, who is locked out, who is, you know, not able to sort of meet the down payment assistance or meet the criteria around credit.

[00:32:44] There's sort of a few barriers there, of course. So as we think about going forward, I think we want to more carefully calibrate the down payment assistance to the need in our specific county. What does that mean in terms of the amount?

[00:33:00] How can we better leverage federal dollars for down payment assistance? We are also, of course, looking at opportunities to build more homeownership and other tools we have to sort of help people overcome those barriers and set them up.

[00:33:19] So that's the quick answer. I don't know if, Tom, you had any thoughts. I think just to summarize, it's truly about, you know, enhancing the use of the FCRHAs, the local housing finance agency, to increase the purchasing power of our buyers.

[00:33:37] And understanding, again, what barriers, you know, still exist for them to be able to access home ownership, you know, both on the sort of credit and like the demand side and also on the supply side as well. I really appreciate it because I do, I think the more research I've been doing, it's both the supply but also the financing. And I appreciate that you're looking at ways for us to leverage, right, our financing power a little bit, maybe to compete with a private financing power. But I don't know if you have just kind of some timeline on when we might hear back from you on how that work is going. And then I'll turn it over to my colleagues. Sure. I think the

[00:34:13] work has been underway for a few months but we've also you know more recently joined the county and sort of taking the lay of the land and what we've been doing how can we deepen it so i think in the next few months um we will be engaging um on a homeownership study to really look at the changing data the changing needs around homeownership in the county um and we can get back to you about exact timelines and sort of scope of that uh but figuring out you know we only have so many levers and how do we use those levers, down payment assistance, closing cost assistance, where we build, what we can build ourselves, and how do we finance it as a housing finance

[00:34:53] agency. Anything you want to add? Yeah, and just adding to that, then most immediately using the Virginia REACH funds. Of course, it's essentially one-time funding, so it's limited with the resources that we have and the time frame.

[00:35:08] But we are excited to start to build that out and then more long-term, as Director Fleetwood I already talked about looking for opportunities to either bring in new funding or to continue to support that after we work through the Virginia REACH Fund as well. Well, thank you. We're thrilled to have you both on the team, and you've clearly hit the ground running.

[00:35:27] I know we're all very excited to see what comes out of your study, so looking forward to that. Let me start here with Vice Chair Smith, and then I'll hop over and come this way this time. Thank you. On slide five, you talk about the CDBG and how many households were supported.

[00:35:44] in 24 and 25. Could you explain the process that these households went through to be able to get to the point of getting this support? Absolutely, and thank you for the question, too, Professor Smith. The CDBG funds, those are specifically for the 80% and under AMI bands.

[00:36:06] Those funds are specifically going to support the households that are purchasing either ADUs or WDUs, and so that application process goes right in line with our current processes to apply for and qualify for ADUs and WDUs. Of course, if a household is above 80%, then they wouldn't be able to use those funds.

[00:36:24] But those are specifically invested for those households. It is a forgivable grant that is forgivable over five years, and so most of our households end up staying beyond that. If they don't, there's a tiered system to pay that back.

[00:36:42] But again, specifically for the application process, that is paired with our ADU and WDU application processes. So I guess the question is, though, how do people find out? I mean, that's part of our job to let people understand.

[00:37:02] So how are they finding out about this? How is there a list? How do you decide who gets the help? Absolutely. And that's something that we've talked a lot about and that will also be considered as we do our market study and dig a little deeper into the community, not just the wants and needs of the community, but also how to reach them and what those best ways are.

[00:37:26] We do have, we post regular updates on our website. We do community work where we'll go out into the community, of course, at different events and other opportunities to be able to share that. And at the same time, we're looking at, we partner with housing counseling agencies and community-based organizations as well to make sure that they know our programs, that they are connected and have the right resources when people are coming in for support through those CBOs or through those housing counselors. And we are also, you know, always thinking about other ways that we can make sure that we're reaching our communities and in particular reaching the vulnerable communities,

[00:38:06] communities that maybe wouldn't necessarily get our message through that some of the maybe direct ways of communication. So always thinking about what other opportunities are out there for us. And realtors? We have worked with realtors. We work with lenders very closely and we've thought a lot about, so we have a group of lenders who are sort of recommended, not required, but we do have lenders who have sort of gone through, who we know have worked through our programs, who work really closely with us. We do work closely with realtors. We've talked a lot about maybe a more formal structure similar to what we've done with lenders that we

[00:38:45] could do with realtors so sort of pre-approved isn't exactly the right word but sort of um you know certified realtors who who know our programs who work really closely with us um up to this point it's it's been sort of ad hoc if you will um and of course we do see some of the same realtors that we work with uh but we've talked about what that might look like especially as we're building out beyond um just sort of our core of adus and wdus um what that would look like to partner with realtors as we are expanding our down payment assistance as we're expanding our closing cost assistance we would anticipate that we'll end up working with more realtors because that is a more

[00:39:23] sort of market-based transaction rather than the inclusionary housing programs that we currently have i think tom wanted to add to that go ahead just very briefly madam chairman supervisor smith thank you very much for the uh for the question and you know certainly to add on to what you've heard what we can do is uh we'll be happy to provide some more information to each of your offices so they understand how people access and how they can get referred into the program. Thank you. And I do think you pointed out a very good area of opportunity for our improved engagement targeting and perhaps working with MVAR if you haven't already thought about doing that. Excellent questions. I apologize. I realize

[00:40:03] Surrisa Herday didn't ask a question last time, so I will turn to you if you'd like, and then I'll go to the... You're good. All right. Who was it? Bierman? Go ahead. Thank you, Madam Chair. On page five, under Homeownership Programs Overview, the last program is Home Repair for the Elderly, HREP. But there aren't any metrics associated with that. So I wondered, how's that working? And how do we get the word out about that program?

[00:40:39] Supervisor Beerman, I can help with that one. Each year, the Home Repair for the Elderly Program serves about 125 families. It is a small program that's intended to provide $1,000 in materials and about a week's worth of free labor.

[00:40:59] And the projects that we do are the kinds of projects that don't require permits. So it might be, you know, fixing a light fixture or dealing with fixing a banister or something like that that allows our seniors or people with disabilities to remain in their own home more safely.

[00:41:17] The referrals come through HCD. It's HCD, you know, there's a small HREP crew that actually goes out and does the work. And it's been in place probably for about 40 years at this point. We do have information about it on our website.

[00:41:35] We do, from time to time, advertise in Golden Gazette, I think is what it's called, and we seem to always have an abundance of applicants and folks needing our assistance and people who are in the program and have sort of repeat engagements with us as well.

[00:41:56] I can add one more metric. In fiscal year 24, we served 177 households. The average household income of those households was $27,000, so right around 25% of area median income, fixed income.

[00:42:14] Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Who is next? Supervisor Lusk? Go ahead. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I'm looking at slide 6, and just trying to understand a little bit more about the $6.3 million in mortgage capital supporting 19 households.

[00:42:38] Can you talk a little bit more about what that means exactly? I just did a little back of the envelope calculation, and it's about $331,578 per household. Can we explain how that's structured and maybe give us a little bit more details on how those individuals are selected as well?

[00:43:04] Absolutely. Thank you, Supervisor Lesk. The SPARK program, it's really exciting. It is kind of standalone from the rest of what we do. It is a partnership with Virginia Housing, and so we administer the program, but the funding does come directly from Virginia Housing.

[00:43:22] but it is invested specifically for households here in Fairfax County. The outreach and qualifications, Virginia Housing actually does have a group of lenders that are certified. They go through training.

[00:43:38] They're very specifically certified, selected is not the right word, but included if they choose to be in the ability to administer SPARC. And so Virginia Housing does a lot of the outreach. Of course, we do our outreach as well as we're doing our other outreach to make sure that people are aware of SPARC.

[00:43:54] The applications go through the lenders, and so while they're also putting the information together for Virginia Housing, that goes through us, that we do our review to make sure that, of course, that it meets all the criteria. They do have their own income limits that we make sure are followed and other requirements that go through that.

[00:44:17] And then ultimately, once the application is processed and once the household is approved, then we make sure that they're connected with Virginia Housing, and Virginia Housing ultimately supports that mortgage. And how are the, in the case of the 19 households, how are they identified?

[00:44:35] Those households come to the lenders first to express their interests. And so, again, sometimes that's due to outreach. Sometimes they're proactive that they've come to us. Sometimes it's the lenders that are proactive or we're proactive that we get them connected with the lender of their choice.

[00:44:51] But the lenders are the front line of that program. Once the lenders do their due diligence, then it comes to us sort of on the back end to process it through. Okay. Thank you. And then can I ask about the REACH program?

[00:45:10] I really appreciate the point that it says resources for manufactured housing residents and communities as other opportunity-driven uses. Could we speak a little bit more about what is intended with that? And for me personally, I would say, you know, it would be amazing if there was some opportunity for residents to purchase a new manufactured housing unit, especially when there's been some sort of tragedy. And I think we've had, unfortunately in my district, two incidences

[00:45:46] where a mobile home has burned to the ground and left those residents without housing. So just want to understand a little bit about what that means and how it might be used to support residents in circumstances such as that. Supervisor Lusk, one of the good things about the agreement that we have with Virginia Housing for the use of these funds is that there's significant flexibility within those sort of buckets. And, you know, I think our, you know,

[00:46:21] one of our principal, you know, kind of priorities would be to help manufactured resident, home residents have more of a path to more traditional home ownership if that's what they wanted. So, you know, utilizing it for down payment, closing a cost assistance, those sorts of things.

[00:46:39] But, you know, certainly we can look at, you know, look at those kinds of opportunities as well. I think, you know, again, you know, the focus, you know, we really want to, you know, be focused on sustainable, you know, wealth building, homeownership.

[00:46:56] You know, I appreciate that response. And I'll just say, you know, I think the fact that this is a consideration is a positive first step. And certainly would like to talk more about how we might use it to support a residence in some of the circumstances I've just described.

[00:47:12] So, thank you. Thank you. Oh, I apologize. No, you're good. One last question. I apologize if that's okay. Yeah, go ahead. Thinking about the Housing Trust Fund, I know we didn't really talk about that here in this presentation, but one of the thoughts I have is that, you know, we can use that fund more for homeownership as well.

[00:47:34] So the question is, do we have a breakout in terms of how the Housing Trust Fund is being used to help us provide home ownership opportunities for residents here in Fairfax County? Supervisor Lusk, we can certainly provide that in a more detailed way, you know, following the meeting.

[00:47:55] But what I can say is that our revolving fund with respect to home ownership is managed within the Housing Trust Fund. So, but let us come back to you with that in writing here. I think it might just be helpful to understand the breakout between those, homeownership versus other.

[00:48:13] Thank you. Thank you. Supervisor Alcorn, Harity, and then I will move on. I do want to remind my colleagues, clearly the Housing Authority does a range of projects, and so we can only get through a little bit on the committees.

[00:48:28] I highly, highly recommend following up, and I know their experts would also be happy to get into more detail with you as well. To that, Supervisor Alcorn. Yeah, and we do that all the time, don't we, Tom? So one quick question on the study. Keeping in mind the barriers to homeownership and, Tom, you mentioned sustainability in response to some of our manufactured housing communities, will the study also be looking at costs that arise during the ownership phase?

[00:49:01] And what I'm thinking about is a lot of our older, particularly condominium communities, that are affordable from a purchasing perspective, but when a $20,000 special assessment to replace the elevator shows up? Are issues like that going to be part of the study?

[00:49:22] Thank you for the question, Supervisor Alcorn. Absolutely. And in previous homeownership studies that I've worked on in other jurisdictions, that's the third element that people don't look at. So you've got the cost to get in, and what is your credit, and are you prepared for homeownership to get you, you know, into the home, and, you know, closing cost assistance, and then on the back end, it's the $800 to replace the window. Do you have it? Are you, you know, set up to be a successful homeowner, and that is, that should be part of sort of the underwriting of homeownership

[00:49:58] programs. Most HFAs look at that pretty carefully as well, whether it's through a reserve requirement or, you know, some kind of cost set aside that can even be pre-funded at times. So we would definitely be looking at that as a best practice. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. No, excellent question. Supervisor Herity. Thank you. On the down payment assistance, is there a wait list for that? What kind of demand is there for that? For the CDBG, the current down payment assistance that

[00:50:36] we have, because that is paired with either the purchase of one of our ADUs or in a very small number of instances, one of our WDUs, the wait list would be the wait list for the ADUs and WDUs. A household wouldn't qualify to receive the down payment assistance until they're ready to purchase one of those units.

[00:50:56] So we don't do down payment assistance outside of the WDU or ADU program? That's what we're looking to expand. Currently, our down payment assistance, yes, is limited to the ADUs and WDUs, but that's also specifically what we're excited to do with the Virginia REACH is expand beyond our programs.

[00:51:14] And so that's certainly something that we'll have more updates as we go and what that looks like as we build it. So, and I thank you for the comment on just scratching the surface. I'm kind of frustrated because a ownership is something I think we really need to look into and we are only scratching the surface.

[00:51:33] It provides so many benefits, you know, the generational wealth where you solve the problem. You know, resident choice, they get fixed payments going forward rather than potential rent increases with the way things.

[00:51:51] And as I've done my calculations, you can actually help a lot more people with a home ownership program than you can spending hundreds of million dollars on government subsidized housing. So I personally would be interested in seeing us as the county do that kind of analysis and take a look at how we can help build generational wealth, how we can help give residents a choice of where they live, provide them with some certainty.

[00:52:17] We can even do it if we're smart in a revolving fund so when the house sells, it comes back in. There are programs like that across the country, and I see you nodding your head. I would really strongly encourage that analysis to be done because we are spending hundreds of million dollars in government subsidized units when I think we could be doing a lot better for our residents.

[00:52:40] They take better care of the units when they own them. They take better care of the community when they own them. They're invested. So I'm looking forward to it. Unfortunately, I've heard it before, but with your background, I'm sure you're going to get it done, and we're going to see it here in very, very short order.

[00:53:00] I appreciate the topic, and I hope we see a lot more on home ownership. Thank you. Supervisor Abakenshaw. Just one point of clarification, because I heard it said we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions on government-subsidized units, But there was a budget Q&A on this question this year.

[00:53:22] And there are a lot of budget Q&As and, you know, hard to keep track of all of them. But Mr. Fleetwood, could you just remind us how much do we, Fairfax County, through the trust fund, spend on average per unit for the rental units that are constructed?

[00:53:41] I'm testing you here. Clearly. Supervisor Walkinshaw, I don't have that off the top. It was $26,000. $26,000 per unit, because those programs allow us to access hundreds of millions of dollars in outside capital and tax credit.

[00:54:01] So it's important to note that the county government contribution, the taxpayer contribution, is very small for those units. It doesn't mean we shouldn't also invest in ownership, but it's important for folks to know we spend very little per unit. Thank you. I will help.

[00:54:17] I'm going to have us move on for one more presentation. Just a quick question. Very quick. Go ahead. All right. Does that 26 or 27 include the cost of the vouchers that go into those units or no? Because most of those units, people are using vouchers in addition.

[00:54:33] All right. Well, it looks like we have a lot of follow-up questions. You're welcome to answer it, but there's a lot that's going into this study. Supervisor Herity, the 27,000 refers to local dollars in and any vouchers that may be used.

[00:54:53] And, you know, I would not assume that, you know, the majority or the vast majority of these units include people that hold vouchers. So they're, you know, so I don't have that off the top of my head.

[00:55:12] That would be helpful. but certainly you know in terms of the cost to construct um we are we are and continue to be very successful in leveraging all of our non-county resources in getting these projects completed thank you very much uh very much appreciate that i think the comprehensive work and as was mentioned some of this is only what's under the housing authority uh we've heard at the CEO meeting from pretty much every person sitting at that table, that access to housing and cost of

[00:55:48] living due to housing are the number one barriers they have and that our economic engine has to continue to be able to grow and fill those jobs and bring communities to live and to work and retire here. So I know that's beyond the scope of this. I hope that's something, I know Supervisor Stork's not here today, that we can continue to look at the overlap of both housing, homeownership, and also how that impacts our economy and our ability to continue to thrive here. So thank you so much for that presentation. And we are shifting to a very different topic, but also under your

[00:56:26] purview. And I believe this one will be presented by Gentry Alexander, our homeownership director. And this is our relocation guidelines. Before they go into that, I think Director Tom would like to kick this off.

[00:56:42] Just a very brief reminder that the original draft of these relocation guidelines were provided to you as part of the package for your March housing committee meeting. We unfortunately ran out of time. They have evolved to some level based on feedback that we've received, but they are, you know, They're very largely consistent with the version that was included in your packages in March.

[00:57:09] And just a reminder that the reason that we're working on this is as part of the follow-on to your preservation policy and that you'll hear more about the work being done with manufactured housing in the next committee meeting. Thank you.

[00:57:25] Thank you. Take it away. Thank you, Director, and thank you, Madam Chair. So again, my name is Gentry Alexander. I'm the Division Director of the Home Ownership Division at HCD, but I also help to support and oversee our relocation efforts as well. So I'm excited to talk through the work that we've done on the relocation guidelines.

[00:57:43] Digging in just a little more into what Director Fleetwood has already started to talk about, these guidelines are put in place to provide safe and affordable replacement housing for county residents facing displacement. It is important to note that our guidelines are very specific to a certain type of project, Specifically being here in the blue box projects that are either own managed and financed by the fc RHA Or as director fleet would mention are going through the housing preservation policy We certainly encourage a more broad use of either some or all of these policies as best practices

[00:58:17] But it is important to note that these are very specific to these types of projects additionally they They're aligned with the federal and state requirements, but they do not replace those requirements But they are closely modeled after a number of our peers, including and particularly Arlington County and the success that they've had with their relocation efforts.

[00:58:38] And then noting that we are moving forward and excited to put this forward for board consideration this fall. These were built within the context of the county's affordable housing goals, in particular providing tenant protections without hindering development, but as well as our commitment to long-term affordability, reinvestment in the affordable housing stock.

[00:59:05] But again, specifically just highlighting that this is very specific for our local fundings and our local programs. A few notable updates. We have a set of guidelines within the county that was adopted in 1992 and revised, I think, in 2012.

[00:59:23] So we already have requirements, but we have updated these. We've worked really hard to clarify a number of the requirements. This includes enhanced communication with our residents. It includes enhanced resident benefits. And then notably, county support as well, and how we can support both owners and developers as well as residents if they're going through these relocation processes.

[00:59:45] We have a chart here for what the relocation process is. I won't go into every single detail, but just noting some of the major steps, starting at the very beginning with planning and coordination, tenant surveys, tenant notifications, letting tenants know as early as possible in the process that this is something that will be happening, as well as informing those tenants of their rights and what that process might look like and what their rights are within that.

[01:00:13] The planning itself includes the creation of a relocation plan, which is both supported by the county and by our teams, but also the relocation plans have to be approved by the county as well. So those include timelines, those include other very specific parts of what the relocation look like, which is specifically listed in the relocation guidelines.

[01:00:33] And then moving on through to the relocation itself, and then when applicable, returning to the property. And then highlighting some of the property owner's responsibilities as well. I've already talked about the enhanced tenant engagement and communication.

[01:00:51] There's notices. There are other timelines that need to be met. There are property profiles and other needs assessments to ensure that the developer or the owner is meeting the needs of the residents. That includes notices. That includes regular reporting to the county as well on the status, on the progress, making sure that the milestones are met, making sure that the requirements are met as the property owner is going through those steps.

[01:01:14] I've talked about the relocation plan and the property profile, and then the relocation itself and the communication and coordination with the county. Again, important to note that we'll assist through every step of that process. We also are in the process of developing a resource page, which will have example relocation plans.

[01:01:32] It'll have examples of communications. It'll have other best practices that not only are we working to develop now, but that we will also build out as we gain even more experience, maybe under the new guidelines. We've done quite a bit of stakeholder outreach, general outreach in newsletters, through our website, and through the FCRHA blog that we have.

[01:01:55] We've had the draft guidelines have been available online for comment submission opportunities. Then we've done targeted outreach as well with our Affordable Housing Advisory Council, NVBA and NAOP, our AHCD Preservation Bench, our Moving to Work Advisory Committee, as well as the Fairfax County NAACP and other community stakeholders.

[01:02:15] And so I will pause here. Thank you very much. And I'm happy to take any questions. Excellent. Well, first of all, thank you, Mr. Alexander, for the work on this, Gentry, and for the updates and sharing the draft with us. If you could clarify for us, I believe you mentioned it, but just, and it's in the overview, is when do these apply?

[01:02:37] And then how, when we're talking about engagement, how do we ensure that where it does apply that there are clear, not just outreach, but engagement with the community and supports available to them? Absolutely. Thank you, Madam Chair.

[01:02:53] And that's a really good question and one that we've spent a lot of time talking about through our outreach to very specifically clarify when they apply and also when they don't apply. These guidelines, again, will not replace other sets of guidelines, so the URI still has to be followed. If it's applicable, other requirements have to be followed.

[01:03:11] And then our guidelines specifically are for either projects that are funded or financed through FCRHA funds or projects that are going through the preservation policy itself. We've also gotten quite a few questions about how does the developer know, how are these put in place?

[01:03:30] And so the other important part to note is that both the implementation and the enforcements, if you will, of the guidelines would be through the proffers or through the other binding contracts as the development is going through, again, either the financing or the preservation policy.

[01:03:47] And to that, I think because there are so many proffers that are included in these projects, is there a role that your office is playing through the both implementation and enforcement of those proffers? How will that work procedurally?

[01:04:05] Yeah, that's it. Tom, did you want to? Sure. So we do have a relocation specialist on staff who does a terrific job. She's actually working on the Little River Glen project right now overseeing the relocation work. That's, of course, our project, but, you know, our role will be in reviewing the relocation plans, providing technical assistance, and ensuring compliance with the proper relocation plan.

[01:04:29] And then sort of beyond this, because some of this is, as you say, clearly only applicable to our very specific projects, is there work being done either through your office or in coordination with either chief equity officer or NCS to help community maybe start to understand what the different, you know, tenant rights are out there, how, you know, people who maybe are trying to figure out what their rights are.

[01:05:00] this seems like a good opportunity to really enhance the education and outreach. Sure. First of all, with respect to the outreach process as part of the development of these policies, I feel like we had a lot of success in terms of reaching a lot of folks. But in the practical application, if we're doing something with one of our own projects, we would be relying on, you know, the technical assistance and processes that we've put together with our partners like NCS in terms of inclusive community outreach, and we would, you know, we would

[01:05:38] certainly be tapping into those resources in, you know, the event these come into play for non-FCRHA projects as well. Yeah, and I would just think it's a great opportunity to continue to do that as we, or such a large county, to do that with the groups that are on the ground and with our partners whether they're nonprofits or accounting agencies.

[01:06:00] But thank you for this work. I know there's been a lot of edits to this draft, and I've worked with some of these personally. So to that, let me start with Supervisor Smith again. She had the first hand up. And then if anyone else, we are okay on time, would like to ask questions or give input, please let me know.

[01:06:19] On slide seven, it talks about stakeholder outreach, and it says online comment submission opportunity. Can you give us an idea of how many comments you've gotten and what kind of comments you're getting? Absolutely, Supervisor Smith.

[01:06:35] And again, thank you for the question. Excuse me. Through the online comments themselves, we actually received probably a stand-alone from our targeted outreach, maybe one or two. And we put the general outreach out at the same time that we did the targeted outreach.

[01:06:53] And so we have gotten some very specific feedback from the targeted outreach. We've had a number of conversations. So in some ways, it's sort of hard to tell, Did that come from the general outreach or did it come from targeted? At the same time, we have gotten quite a bit of feedback and have had a number of conversations, again, with everyone that's listed here.

[01:07:11] In terms of general public, I'd say that those comments and that feedback has been pretty limited. At the same time, in addition to the outreach that we know we've done so far, to the point that it's already been made, There's certainly opportunities for us to continue to engage with the communities ensure that that Our residents are aware and that our tenants are aware of what opportunities they have what their rights are Thank you riser herity. Yeah, anything from like I would guess in VBA or nap on the impact on the cost of housing units Thank you supervisor herity. That's a really important question

[01:07:50] We've had a number of conversations and have talked a lot with them In terms of specific dollar amounts, that's not something that has been either put to us or that we've put forward. At the same time, it's certainly something that we'd like to look at as we go.

[01:08:07] It is, I think, important to note that, again, that the scope is very limited to these very specific projects. And as a project is being either developed or is going through those proffers, other commitments, that that can certainly be part of the consideration. All right, I'll reach out and see if they had any suggestions on how to reduce that amount because we are talking about affordable housing overall, and we don't want to do anything to increase the cost of housing that we don't have to, but we need to take care of the people that are transitioning, I understand that.

[01:08:39] What transitional housing programs do we fund now? Supervisor Herity, we do not, you're referring to transitional housing such as the type that's provided by Homestretch, for example. Yep. We do not current, the Housing Authority, we do have some loans that we made in the past to Homestretch, but we do not currently provide funding to them.

[01:09:03] And that's, they're not, transitional housing is not eligible for in our blueprint? Not, I would need to go back and look at the current RFP, do you remember? Thank you for the question.

[01:09:23] It is not eligible in the previous version of our blueprint NOFA, and mostly that's because it's very hard to kind of underwrite or calibrate or count the units, if you will, but certainly something we can look at.

[01:09:42] Okay. Thank you. That's it for me. Supervisor Lusk. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Let me say I really appreciate this series of relocation guidelines. And when I read through page 2, 1A, overview, the very last sentence, I just paused for a second.

[01:10:06] It says, the overarching goal is to assist displaced tenants in moving to safe and affordable replacement housing convenient to their employment or school. Just wanted to ask here, I'm assuming this also would give some flexibility for those who might want to be able to be close to family members who could support them.

[01:10:29] close to child care, close to other supports, including transit support. So just wanted to make sure that that is considered as a part of this overview and guideline here in A1.

[01:10:45] Thank you, Supervisor Luskin. And yes, you're absolutely right. And to sort of even further that, specific for each project as those conversations are happening, And that's certainly something that while being clear with some of the requirements, there's certainly flexibility based on the tenant assessment, based on the tenant survey, and the needs of the community.

[01:11:09] Okay. No, I appreciate that. I think that makes sense. Thank you. And then second, I wanted to ask on the relocation cost amounts. How often is this updated? Just trying to get a sense of how we're keeping pace with escalation.

[01:11:26] And then do we even want to consider having an escalator clause in this document? So for the assistance contributions that can be made, those are fixed to the URA's assistance.

[01:11:44] They update those. I think the most recent update was in 2022, but it is something federally that's looked at. We provide additional benefits actually to the 60% and under. So the URA only applies for under 80%.

[01:11:59] We actually give additional assistance under 60%, knowing that especially in our county, they're going to need that. Yes. And then we will continue to look at this, especially as we move forward. If we find that we need to look at it differently, we'd certainly bring that back for further consideration.

[01:12:20] Yeah, I just worry that you can see the escalation in cost and surprising. I mean, I'm a person who kind of pays attention to things, but to acknowledge that the cost of housing and apartments and one bedrooms, the increase year over year has been astonishing.

[01:12:38] So I just want to make sure we're able to support our residents in the most effective way. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. I don't see additional questions from my colleagues. I did have one additional point of clarification since we do have a little bit of time, And that is, as we look at the relocation plans, and again, a lot of this is tied to our preservation policies and objectives.

[01:13:04] And so if you could just explain to us a little bit of the incentives, as we look at the overall cost, I know I'm working with one developer right now who's looking at, rather than going through the traditional process for development, looking at the preservation policies and that this is a requirement of going through the preservation policies.

[01:13:24] Is that something we've looked at, the full cost? It's a little bit of a give or take on that one. You're correct that the preservation policy does provide for certain incentives for the replacement of existing affordability on site.

[01:13:44] While, you know, while we've not sort of looked at the two of them, you know, necessarily in tandem, I can say that, you know, comparatively, you know, our view would be that, you know, the tradeoff of going through the preservation policy would provide substantial benefit for a developer.

[01:14:02] I would just say if we are going back to MBBI or NA up on that, I think it'd be important to balance that with the incentives, sort of the carrots we're providing by including this. I think that's critical to this work. Well, to that same note, further comments or questions, if you want to sort of tell us the next steps on this, the timeline. We are planning to put these forward for Board of Supervisors consideration in the fall, and we'll know more specifically as we close out all the feedback we've received and ensure that we have essentially our final, final draft. Then as soon as that's

[01:14:39] done, we'll start through the process of putting this forward for consideration. Okay, we don't have a date yet, so I would suggest if any of my colleagues have additional questions, concerns, please reach out send them directly to Tom and his team thank you all for doing this before I close out she's not she's sitting in the audience but I just want to recognize Carrie Wilson is here from Cornerstones who has been definitely not more than just an advocate but a champion in housing for many years and I believe has recently announced her retirement so thank you Miss Wilson for all of your years and all of your work.

[01:15:20] You know, many of us have come into this work following the footsteps of our incredible champions. So I want to thank you and your entire team for what you do. To that, we are now closing the Housing Committee meeting. I do not have the next date, but we will have that for you soon.

[01:15:37] And we are adjourned until 11 a.m.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coraggio Consulting · aguyonx.com